- Lionsgate recently launched a podcast division, which produced the number-one show Scamanda.
- Gretchen Stockdale, president and COO of Lionsgate-owned Pilgrim, is one of its leading execs.
- She discussed how her team plans to turn podcasts into TV shows, and how “Scamanda” could be a doc.
If you’ve listened to a podcast on Spotify or Apple in the past month and a half, you’ve likely seen the name “Scamanda” pop up in the top 10 podcast charts.
“Scamanda” tells the story of blogger Amanda C. Riley, who faked cancer for almost a decade and was convicted of wire fraud in 2022 after swindling her supporters out of over $100,000.
The show was produced by Lionsgate Sound, the Hollywood giant’s new audio division that launched last year. Lionsgate is one of several television companies to start its own audio arm — like Netflix and HBO, which produce audio companions to their TV shows.
Lionsgate Sound came out of the rise in popularity of audio as a medium, said Gretchen Stockdale, president and COO of Pilgrim Media Group. Pilgrim is a Lionsgate-owned production company that specializes in unscripted TV, and also a minority owner in Lionsgate Sound.
“Seeing how audio properties were essentially becoming the new books or articles that were being adapted into the visual media, we thought, ‘Why not do it ourselves?'” Stockdale told Insider.
The decision to start a podcasting division was based on four factors:
- The possibility of “creating original IP that may be exploited by the various business units in a derivative form.” Podcasts are seen as an “incubation” for later TV developments, Stockdale said.
- Conversely, the podcast division can also leverage the success of existing TV shows and programs by producing companion audio works for them.
- The audio division also explores the Lionsgate library to look for “legacy” shows that can be revisited in audio
- Lastly, Lionsgate Sound provides production services to third-party producers and creators.
Lionsgate knew it was going to invest first and foremost in true crime, because of its success and its potential for derivative works in the visual medium, while remaining open to other genres.
“If it could be done by others, we could certainly do it, and probably do it better,” Stockdale said.
Lionsgate Sound has produced seven podcasts so far, including “Scamanda.”
Stockdale discussed with Insider what the process of turning a podcast into a TV show would look like.
Other companies have done this, such as Hulu with the ABC News podcast “The Dropout,” which discusses the rise and fall of Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes, or Apple TV+ with “The Shrink Next Door,” a Bloomberg and Wondery production about the manipulative relationship between a psychiatrist and his patient.
Stockdale mentioned that Lionsgate plans to invest in this area, but did not comment on any concrete plans.
The process behind turning a podcast into a TV show
When it comes to translating an audio show into a visual one, there needs to be great storytelling, and a story that appeals to the widest possible audience.
The decision-making process differs depending on whether the podcast is better suited for a scripted or an unscripted project. (The term “unscripted” identifies nonfiction TV, while “scripted” describes shows that are fictionalized, and use scripts and actors.)
Unscripted shows require visual documents and assets, and the availability of sources to appear in the potential show. In terms of timeline, an unscripted show is quick, and can be turned around in months.
“You’d want to strike as quickly as you can,” Stockdale said. “Enjoy the success of the podcast and not leave audiences waiting too long to see it in another form.”
“Scamanda,” for example, could be turned into a documentary TV show. The podcast’s success has proven that it has broad audience appeal.
“Everyone can relate to cancer in some way or another,” Stockdale said. “Everyone can relate to manipulation or be manipulated. Everyone can relate to being shocked by the behavior of another person.”
An unscripted show about Riley could work thanks to the wealth of assets that exist about her — video and sound recordings, as well as archived versions of her now-defunct blog. The victims of the scam and Riley’s family members could also participate in the production.
Some podcasts are more suited for a scripted series, however.
An example is “Surviving El Chapo,” an earlier Lionsgate Sound production about two twins who became government informants and helped bring down the famous drug lord. In this case, going the unscripted route would be difficult, because the podcast protagonists are in the Witness Protection Program and cannot show their faces publicly. In this case, a scripted show would make more sense.
Having access to visual documents is not necessary for a scripted series, “but you need a story that translates perfectly into the visual medium,” Stockdale said, because the competition is high. These types of shows normally take longer to produce, because they require scripts and actors.
From a metrics perspective, the number of downloads a podcast amasses can be considered for a potential TV derivative, but there is not a specific download number that must be met, Stockdale said.
Producing a podcast as a companion to a TV show
The reverse — the production of an audio companion for a TV show — is easier when it comes to unscripted shows, Stockdale said. It normally requires the platform the TV show airs on to buy the audio counterpart, too.
So far, Lionsgate Sound has produced one podcast to accompany a documentary on actor and singer Jussie Smollett airing on Fox Nation, called “Attacking Jussie.” The podcast included exclusive interviews with the show’s protagonists.
Scripted shows require a buy-in with the filmmakers or showrunners, and the TV network the show is on. This is not something Lionsgate Sound has done yet, but Stockdale said the company is “heavily exploring those areas.” She mentioned she’s seen enthusiasm from TV producers to find new ways to expand their audiences.
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